Example: Simultaneous supply / Cascade framework agreement

[yolile]

In Paraguay, the lots have their own information, like:

• If the lots allows simultaneous Supply of the items
• the delivery address of the lot
• the minimum value of the lot
• if the lot is part of an open contract and what type of open contract (open amounts or open quantites )

So, it is proposed to add a "details" field, as the one that exist for parties, to add all these details about the lots in Paraguay.

                "lots": [
                    {
                        "id": "1",
                        "title": "Lote Total",
                        "status": "active",
                        "value": {
                            "currency": "PYG"
                        },
                        "details": {
                            "simultaneousSupply": False,
                            "isOpenContract": True,
                            "openContractType": "Por Monto"
                            "minValue": {
                                "currency": "PYG",
                                "amount": 500000
                            },
                            "deliveryAddress": {
                                "streetAddress": "Escriba un lugar de entrega"
                            }
                          }
                    }
                ]

Lot example: https://contrataciones.gov.py/licitaciones/convocatoria/359472-servicio-transmision-vivo-redes-sociales-eventos-organizados-rectorado-una-1.html#itemSolicitados

cc @duncandewhurst

[jpmckinney]

I recommend putting the fields directly on the Lot object.

• What does "simultaneous supply of the items" mean?
• "the delivery address of the lot": Is it not possible to put this on the item using the location extension, and to then relate the item to the lot with relatedLot?
• "the minimum value of the lot": Instead, copy the tender.minValue field onto the Lot object, but replace "procurement" with "lot" in the field description. This change should be made to the core extension.
• "if the lot is part of an open contract and what type of open contract": Could the logic be that if openContractType is set, then it is an open contract, and otherwise it is not? That avoids having an extra field for isOpenContract. This is all I can find from a quick search for "open contract". I'm not sure if perhaps "Contrato Abierto" refers to a different concept than "open contract" in English, e.g. indefinite quantity (or "open quantity" in the PDF) is a narrower kind of "open contract".

details objects are somewhat of an anti-pattern.

[yolile]

"the delivery address of the lot": Is it not possible to put this on the item using the location extension, and to then relate the item to the lot with relatedLot?

Yes, but the information will be the same/duplicate for all the items in the lot.

"if the lot is part of an open contract and what type of open contract": Could the logic be that if openContractType is set, then it is an open contract, and otherwise it is not?

Yes, sure

The definitions of the simultaneous supply and open contract can be found here: https://www.contrataciones.gov.py/documentos/download/marco-legal/12760
at the article 35 and 36 of the Decree Nº 21.909/2003 of the Public procurement law (page 21 and 22)

Simultaneous Supply: is one that contemplates the supply of goods and / or services by more than one supplier or contractor as a result of the same tender.
This system will be applicable when it is convenient for reasons of economy and efficiency or when it is foreseen, for reasons of capacity, that no bidder will be able to provide all the goods.

Open Contract: it is characterized by specifying approximately the quantities and amplitude of goods
and / or services, as they are not capable of exact definition for the duration of the contract.

[jpmckinney]

Yes, but the information will be the same/duplicate for all the items in the lot.

Hmm, in other jurisdictions it's possible for a lot to have multiple items, each of which are delivered to different places (or some to one location and others to a second location). I understand that this duplication is not efficient, but it avoids having to look in two places for the same information, or to have to implement logic like "if an item has a location, use it, otherwise use the lot's location". This gets more complicated if, for example, an item is not deliverable (now you'll need to somehow flag that the lot's location should not be used). Perhaps in Paraguay, all items in one lot always go to one location, but that's not the case in the EU, for example.

Simultaneous Supply: is one that contemplates the supply of goods and / or services by more than one supplier or contractor as a result of the same tender. This system will be applicable when it is convenient for reasons of economy and efficiency or when it is foreseen, for reasons of capacity, that no bidder will be able to provide all the goods.

In a non-Paraguay case, wouldn't 'simultaneous supply' be true anytime the suppliers array has more than one supplier?

Open Contract: it is characterized by specifying approximately the quantities and amplitude of goods and / or services, as they are not capable of exact definition for the duration of the contract.

Okay, so it is similar to indefinite quantity. There's a proposal for estimated quantity, which might be relevant: #689 Let me know what you think – it might not be the best approach.

[jpmckinney]

Regarding the repetition, I created a broader issue: #893

[yolile]

Hmm, in other jurisdictions it's possible for a lot to have multiple items, each of which are delivered to different places (or some to one location and others to a second location). I understand that this duplication is not efficient, but it avoids having to look in two places for the same information, or to have to implement logic like "if an item has a location, use it, otherwise use the lot's location". This gets more complicated if, for example, an item is not deliverable (now you'll need to somehow flag that the lot's location should not be used). Perhaps in Paraguay, all items in one lot always go to one location, but that's not the case in the EU, for example.

Ok, I will duplicate the values.

In a non-Paraguay case, wouldn't 'simultaneous supply' be true anytime the suppliers array has more than one supplier?

Not necessarily, because, even in Paraguay, if the award is by item or lots then you could have a supplier for each awarded item/lot

Okay, so it is similar to indefinite quantity. There's a proposal for estimated quantity, which might be relevant: #689 Let me know what you think – it might not be the best approach.

I commented on that issue about that. But, is ok to add the minValue as an extension to lot?

[jpmckinney]

Not necessarily, because, even in Paraguay, if the award is by item or lots then you could have a supplier for each awarded item/lot

If there is a supplier for each awarded item/lot, then in a non-Paraguay case, there would be a different award for each lot, with one supplier per award. Did I misunderstand your example?

But, is ok to add the minValue as an extension to lot?

Yes, that's fine as described in #888 (comment) I was instead discussing open contract, and only linking to #689 in case it was relevant (e.g. in case the item quantities are specified on open contracts, but need to be expressed as estimates or ranges).

[yolile]

If there is a supplier for each awarded item/lot, then in a non-Paraguay case, there would be a different award for each lot, with one supplier per award. Did I misunderstand your example?

No, you understood it well. But, there are some cases, for example, when the tender was a simultaneous supply but only one supplier was awarded, This can happen because the simultaneous supply type has some rules, for example, that the second awarded supplier must supply the items with the same price as the first awarded supplier and the second awarded supplier could not agree with that. Or, as the example, it could happen that the tender has only one tenderer. So, if we have multiples awarded suppliers for the same item we can be sure that it is a simultaneous supply, but if we only have one awarded supplier we cannot say if the tender was or not a simultaneous supply.
This type of tender is just a way to try to increase the competition, and I think that it is important to have a field to indicate it to the possible bidders.

Yes, that's fine as described in #888 (comment) I was instead discussing open contract, and only linking to #689 in case it was relevant (e.g. in case the item quantities are specified on open contracts, but need to be expressed as estimates or ranges).

Yes, it is relevant because the open contract process could be of amount or quantities, so the items quantities (and amounts) need to be expressed as ranges. What I'm saying is, we already have the concept of ranges in the tender/value and tender/minValue field, and that we can use the same logic for quantities (quantity and minQuantity).
Also, I will need to put/create the minValue field at item level too, for when the tender is by items

[jpmckinney]

Ah, okay, understood: so it is information about the procedure, rather than about the result. It makes sense to indicate it then. To better understand the procedure, in order to determine how best to indicate this:

• Procedurally, how is it determined which supplier will supply the items? Is it similar to a direct call-off in a framework agreement (e.g. where the set-up contract has some rules about deciding which supplier to use)?
• Is a procedure with simultaneous supply considered a distinct procedure? Can 'simultaneous supply' be applied to only one type of procedure, or can it be used in a whole variety of types of procedures?

From what I understand, I would consider 'simultaneous supply' to be a type of two-stage procedure. The first stage determines which suppliers participate, and in a second-stage (I'm assuming) they are awarded contracts based on some criteria.

As part of the work on EU forms, this extension adds a secondStage field on the Lot object to describe procedural details about the second stage. So far, it just indicates any limits on the number of candidates to be invited for the second stage.

If 'simultaneous supply' is an attribute that can describe many different types of procedures, then we might want to add it to this secondStage object. If, instead, it is a distinct procedure, then perhaps it is better to map it to procurementMethodDetails or similar.

[jpmckinney]

Re: quantities, understood, I will discuss in that issue, then.

[yolile]

Procedurally, how is it determined which supplier will supply the items? Is it similar to a direct call-off in a framework agreement (e.g. where the set-up contract has some rules about deciding which supplier to use)?

The supplier with the lowest price is the first awarded, and he has to provide a percentage of the number of item (this percentage is determined already in the tender specifications and conditions document), then the second should provide the rest and so on. This decision is made in the award and there is not a second stage, all is part of the award stage. so I think that in this case is not necessary to have a secondStage or similar, we dont have extra information or stages.

Is a procedure with simultaneous supply considered a distinct procedure? Can 'simultaneous supply' be applied to only one type of procedure, or can it be used in a whole variety of types of procedures?

It is the second, it can be used in a variety of types of procedures